//Is Michael Horn a rotten little guy? Absolutely. He strikes me as a nasty piece of work. He's a bully, the worst kind of True Believer.// -- PK
I don't see this... Bully? No. A very nice man, actually, who used a hell of a lot more grace and style dealing with Kaptain Kal Karlton (your doorman) Korff than I would have. I'd unholster pistols!
Regarding the *debate*... I wrote the following to Mr. Horn...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here are my thoughts on last nights "debate". What immediately follows is the five minute opening statement made by Korff...
17:51 -- Ever the self-interested and self-promoting blowhard, Kaptain KKK sails in with his fatuous proclamation that he is the "greatest critic" of the Meier case, had "crushed it" once already, and that only his "ongoing struggle with counter-terrorism efforts" has allowed Meier proponents a resurgence he had "stamped out (Single handedly?) last Century."
18:26 -- Kaptain KKK reports that all Meier's neighbors believe him to be a fraud and that they accuse him of extreme dishonesty, besides.
18:55 -- Kaptain KKK proclaims fake photos from an early period which can be determined fake by a simple visual examination. Claims he has duplicated the photographs himself on site.
19:40 -- Takes time to hawk personal products for sale... purloined Meier photos ostensiblely used to discredit Meier.
20:45 -- Kaptain KKK discredits IBM engineer Marcel Vogel, who held an honorary Doctorate, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Vogel , as unqualified to conduct the tests he conducted, as not having a PhD of any type, and as a dabbler in esoterics and fringe sciences. Proclaims Vogel is not credible, and further implies he is a buffoon.
21:19 -- Kaptain KKK proclaims there is zero evidence for Meier's claims ignoring six categories of same, extant.
22:14 -- Kaptain KKK hawks his purloined product again.
22:28 -- Horn refutes KKK's accusations, smears, proclamations, and character derisions, for a similar 5 minutes...
Who can stand to take any more of Mr. Korff-Kaptain-of-the-Special-Secret-Services Klaptrap (Excuse me? Did that "S-SS" badge come in a box of Fruit Loops?). Heil Herr Kaptain!
Zooks! He does not make his case, is wild with accusations, libelous with his commentary, ridiculous with regard to his assertions, and a purloiner of materials not his own.
Sorry... Prometheus Press lacks the credibility extended to it, Horn's assertions are in no way obviated, and KKK is revealed as a pathetic klown interested in flashy self-promotion, consumed with an inflated self-interest, and a purloiner of ideas and attitudes complementing that aforementioned self-promotion and self-interest, only.
Prometheus? Please! I was there when Art Bell made the Kaptain do a great Ned Beatty "Deliverance" impersonation of a squealing piggy on national radio! The Kaptain has not changed in a decade. What a fulsome and revolting personage is one Kal K. Korff... in my opinion, of course.
...And what's with this oft-repeated bogus link with Ray Santilli? Could anything be more fatuous apples and oranges.
Mr. Horn! This man only seeks to profit from his slander of you!
As you know, I'm not a Billy Meier acolyte by any means, but Korff's sociopathy is plain. You are abundantly sincere and forthcoming, and I suspect would be the first to come clean if you subsequently discovered you were being duped.
Contrarily, he shouts fire in your crowded theater then sells work not his own to the people rushing out!
There is no fire. There is only Korff. Moreover he was selling 'product' in his first five minutes, twice, and stealthily numerous times thereafter. I'm sure the host heard it if he revisited.
You know, especially because Horn keeps his head and keeps Korff coming back to the issue of him just not able to make his case against Horn, this really enrages him, additionally, because Korff is loath to accept the base premise of the whole Meier "thing":
...That he is in no way special himself, that he is not the jewel of creation, that he is not God's favorite, that his histories are largely predetermined and facile, and that his individuality and ego and personal holdings are a disease symptom... so worse than valueless...
...That his self-styled reputation is fatuous and juvenile, and that his achievements are trite, irrelevant, and forgettable. That he is wrong, wrong-hearted, and wrong-minded about EVERYTHING and he has to redo much if not ALL his work, besides...
...That he can no longer (is not competent to sneer, eh? That it's harder for him to whistle passed his graveyard?
This is his hard swallow with Meier and Horn... "everything Korff knows is wrong"! UFOs DO look like the end plate on an old Hoover Vacuum cleaner, sometimes, as reported by Valle and McKenna!
...That we are on an asymptotic cusp primed to accelerate forward into hyperspace Korff won't be part of. That the future is our kingdom and the kingdom is at hand, eh?
Horn took no prisoners, and he kept his head! Well done! He won the debate, such as it was, handily. I hear the lamentations of the Kaptain's sallow women!
Lastly "Parasite" and "Girly-man" is a restrained estimation of Kaptain Korff's act and aspect! [g]. Again... well done!
alienview@roadrunner.com > www.AlienView.net >> AVG Blog -- http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/ >>> U F O M a g a z i n e -- www.ufomag.com
Alfred wrote - I don't see this... Bully? No. A very nice man, actually, who used a hell of a lot more grace and style dealing with Kaptain Kal Karlton (your doorman) Korff than I would have. I'd unholster pistols!
I have witnessed some really nasty exchanges between Horn and Korff on Victor's list, but you are right that Horn is not quite so bad as Korff. At least I can understand why Horn cares, because he believes very much in the Meire story, but what I don't get is Korff's obsession with destroying Horn and Meire. Even if they were both complete frauds, there are far more dangerous and expensive frauds going on in the world, why waste the time on those two?
Presume that Horn is stuffed with wild bionic blueberries, everything else about him is complete efficacious-ness. Seriously, have a closer look.
After my own heart, the guy really tries to perform a service, really tries to take a hard look at "time and tide" like you and I do (I further presume), and he's really doing nothing wrong but prosecuting his own sincerity I feel.
If he didn't believe "it" or think it was a *good* thing, _I_ don't suspect that he'd be doing it; moreover I think he'd come clean about that...
Wow! Think of the killing he could make being the sociopath he's painted out to be, switching sides and writing the expose that debunked the 60 year old Meier "phenom" at LAST! LOL! He could steal all Kaptain Korff's work and profit the same way Korff is presently! LOL!
That said -- I had a good hard look at Mr. Horn... and produced the following as a result:
http://www.rense.com/general51/dvd.htm
Jeff Rense is another who is no friend to Mr. Horn...
In the preceding essay, regarding the "few... well chosen... rational and constructive words from learned readers [putting] me aright, straight away!"?
They were not forthcoming. A hard look at Horn intimates a there in there somewhere, for my money.
I don't want to appear stuffy, L., sincerely... but I think Horn deserves a closer look than he gets... pretty much for the reasons iterated earlier in the thread...
As to the dust-ups referenced earlier witnessed at the "Triple K" site...? It seems Horn is abundantly provoked and still manages to keep the high ground.
KKK's the "pig that likes to be wrestled with", eh? He's the one profiting from his unsupported smears, and in a massive hyperbole I've alluded to "unholstered pistols," already!
Horn has not been as near as vindictive as, well... me, frankly! You've seen me go off on that which tasks my sensibilities, right? Maybe I should get the same kind of criticism.
I've been loudly critical of "Kaptain Korff" for years as "triple k" is an obnoxious shill for the "dark side." LOL! Here's something from 2002. He's at _least_ as dodgy as Horn could ever hope to be on a "max-zoom" day!
Still, I'll wrestle the "pig" because when _I_ wrestle with the "pig," I aim to come away with some chops, ribs, and shred, you know?
Some call _me_ a bully. Predictably, I don't see it that way. Sorry, I just won't be sneered at or tolerate the injudicious same towards others. Expect a victory to be Pyhrric. I suspect Horn is the same way even if more a gentleman than I. [g].
Hey -- in peace... I'm just speaking my mind... and showing restraint in my own right! LOL!
alienview@roadrunner.com > www.AlienView.net >> AVG Blog -- http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/ >>> U F O M a g a z i n e -- www.ufomag.com
Don't stop speaking your mind. You won't offend me unless you start calling me names.:-)
Seriously, I have nothing against Horn, I just do not believe as he does about Meire. I don't believe he is making any real money off this and I really just wonder about the motivation of Korff. Suing them for 25 million is laughable, does anyone really believe Meire and Horn have made 25 mil? I know too many ufologists to believe that. Korff has to know there is no 25 mil, so why is he doing this? Attention maybe or just a sick need to try to destroy Horn and Meire? I haven't a clue.
Really if not for the fact that I know how much money it can cost if you are sued, even with a completely false case (sadly I have been there), I would find the whole thing laughable. Even if it never actually makes it to court it can end up costing thousands of dollars. So I will once again say that we need a law that people who bring unprovable or false charges against someone need to be forced to pay the defendants court/lawyer costs.
Lesley,: "At least I can understand why Horn cares, because he believes very much in the Meire story, but what I don't get is Korff's obsession with destroying Horn and Meire. Even if they were both complete frauds, there are far more dangerous and expensive frauds going on in the world, why waste the time on those two?"
If you accept the theory (I do, it's my new thang, :) that, as Colin Bennett so brilliantly wrote in the latest issue of UFO Magazine (and why that hasn't received a lot of attention, I don't know) there's a (sorry, here it comes) paradigm in place to ensure this kind of thing goes on.
Call it part of the Trickster in paranormal and UFO phenomena (as George Hansen does) or whatever, this kind of dangerous, stupid, thuggish, ridiculous crap will always -- _always_ -- go on.
There is the energy/force at work, usin g its dupes, like the Korff's of the world, and all other mega-skeptics, to help the Infrastructure keep the mundane world mundane, and the anomalous out.
By whatever means: trolling, attacking, disinfo, and UFO poser fence sitting, as well as more "normal" means; like posting on the JREF forum and becoming of member of the now 'CSI.' The renaming of that orginization is part of the process; Nickell's silly owl theories are a part of the process, 'Stop Slyvia.com' is a part of the process, even while, at the same time, railing against those, like Victor Zummit, who in typical Trickster like fashion, gave the world the paranormal version of "The Challenge" (as per Amazing Randi.)
As normal I am way behind in my UFO magazine reading. I shall have to make a point to read that article.
I have always kind of wondered if the trolling and other stuff is used as a distraction of sorts. As long as ufologists are busy writing responses to comments and trying to defend themselves, they are spending time that they could be using for more important things. Mostly though, I think KKK and others like him have a mental problem that causes them to have a need for any kind of attention they can manage to get.
I agree with that Lesley; that part of the intent in the baiting and trolling and poo flinging is to distract. It's to get UFO and Fortean researchers off topic, and in a "fight" with them. That's why I won't engage with them any longer. That's not the same thing as saying one shouldn't call them on their stuff; one absolutely should! If one is so inclined. But giving in to their demands, taking the bait, -- no thanks.
I rarely respond to them directly either, especially if I feel that I am being proded into some sort of response. Seriously, I think some of them take joy in being noticed and responded to and I just will not do it if I get that vibe. I know that hurts them far more than anything I could say. They can't stand to think that they didn't anger me enough to respond. In truth, it is hard to be angered by someone you consider to be a mentally ill, attention needing, sad and sick excuse for a human being. That goes along with the fact that I would actually have to have some amount of respect for someone to actually be offended by anything they say. As everyone knows I could probably continue along those lines, but it is enough.
8 comments:
//Is Michael Horn a rotten little guy? Absolutely. He strikes me as a nasty piece of work. He's a bully, the worst kind of True Believer.// -- PK
I don't see this... Bully? No. A very nice man, actually, who used a hell of a lot more grace and style dealing with Kaptain Kal Karlton (your doorman) Korff than I would have. I'd unholster pistols!
Regarding the *debate*... I wrote the following to Mr. Horn...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here are my thoughts on last nights "debate". What immediately follows is the five minute opening statement made by Korff...
17:51 -- Ever the self-interested and self-promoting blowhard, Kaptain KKK sails in with his fatuous proclamation that he is the
"greatest critic" of the Meier case, had "crushed it" once already, and that only his "ongoing struggle with counter-terrorism efforts" has allowed Meier proponents a resurgence he had "stamped out (Single handedly?) last Century."
18:26 -- Kaptain KKK reports that all Meier's neighbors believe him to be a fraud and that they accuse him of extreme dishonesty, besides.
18:55 -- Kaptain KKK proclaims fake photos from an early period which can be determined fake by a simple visual examination. Claims he has duplicated the photographs himself on site.
19:40 -- Takes time to hawk personal products for sale... purloined Meier photos ostensiblely used to discredit Meier.
20:45 -- Kaptain KKK discredits IBM engineer Marcel Vogel, who held
an honorary Doctorate, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Vogel , as unqualified to conduct the tests he conducted, as not having a PhD of any type, and as a dabbler in esoterics and fringe sciences. Proclaims Vogel is not credible, and further implies he is a buffoon.
21:19 -- Kaptain KKK proclaims there is zero evidence for Meier's claims ignoring six categories of same, extant.
22:14 -- Kaptain KKK hawks his purloined product again.
22:28 -- Horn refutes KKK's accusations, smears, proclamations, and character derisions, for a similar 5 minutes...
Who can stand to take any more of Mr. Korff-Kaptain-of-the-Special-Secret-Services Klaptrap (Excuse me? Did that "S-SS" badge come in a box of Fruit Loops?). Heil Herr Kaptain!
Zooks! He does not make his case, is wild with accusations, libelous with his commentary, ridiculous with regard to his assertions, and a purloiner of materials not his own.
Sorry... Prometheus Press lacks the credibility extended to it, Horn's assertions are in no way obviated, and KKK is revealed as a pathetic klown interested in flashy self-promotion, consumed with an inflated self-interest, and a purloiner of ideas and attitudes complementing that aforementioned self-promotion and self-interest,
only.
Prometheus? Please! I was there when Art Bell made the Kaptain do a great Ned Beatty "Deliverance" impersonation of a squealing piggy on national radio! The Kaptain has not changed in a decade. What a fulsome and revolting personage is one Kal K. Korff... in my opinion, of course.
...And what's with this oft-repeated bogus link with Ray Santilli? Could anything be more fatuous apples and oranges.
Mr. Horn! This man only seeks to profit from his slander of you!
As you know, I'm not a Billy Meier acolyte by any means, but Korff's sociopathy is plain. You are abundantly sincere and forthcoming, and I suspect would be the first to come clean if you subsequently
discovered you were being duped.
Contrarily, he shouts fire in your
crowded theater then sells work not his own to the people rushing out!
There is no fire. There is only Korff. Moreover he was selling 'product' in his first five minutes, twice, and stealthily
numerous times thereafter. I'm sure the host heard it if he revisited.
You know, especially because Horn keeps his head and keeps Korff coming back to the issue of him just not able to make his case against Horn, this really enrages him, additionally, because Korff is loath to accept the base premise of the whole Meier "thing":
...That he is in no way special himself, that he is not the jewel of creation, that he is not God's favorite, that his histories are largely predetermined and facile, and that his individuality and ego
and personal holdings are a disease symptom... so worse than
valueless...
...That his self-styled reputation is fatuous and juvenile, and that his achievements are trite, irrelevant, and forgettable. That he is wrong, wrong-hearted, and wrong-minded about EVERYTHING and he has to redo much if not ALL his work, besides...
...That he can no longer (is not competent to sneer, eh? That it's harder for him to whistle passed his graveyard?
This is his hard swallow with Meier and Horn... "everything Korff knows is wrong"! UFOs DO look like the end plate on an old Hoover Vacuum
cleaner, sometimes, as reported by Valle and McKenna!
...That we are on an asymptotic cusp primed to accelerate forward into hyperspace Korff won't be part of. That the future is our kingdom
and the kingdom is at hand, eh?
Horn took no prisoners, and he kept his head! Well done! He won
the debate, such as it was, handily. I hear the lamentations of the Kaptain's sallow women!
Lastly "Parasite" and "Girly-man" is a restrained estimation of Kaptain Korff's act and aspect! [g]. Again... well done!
alienview@roadrunner.com
> www.AlienView.net
>> AVG Blog -- http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/
>>> U F O M a g a z i n e -- www.ufomag.com
Alfred wrote -
I don't see this... Bully? No. A very nice man, actually, who used a hell of a lot more grace and style dealing with Kaptain Kal Karlton (your doorman) Korff than I would have. I'd unholster pistols!
I have witnessed some really nasty exchanges between Horn and Korff on Victor's list, but you are right that Horn is not quite so bad as Korff. At least I can understand why Horn cares, because he believes very much in the Meire story, but what I don't get is Korff's obsession with destroying Horn and Meire. Even if they were both complete frauds, there are far more dangerous and expensive frauds going on in the world, why waste the time on those two?
Presume that Horn is stuffed with wild bionic blueberries, everything else about him is complete efficacious-ness. Seriously, have a closer look.
After my own heart, the guy really tries to perform a service, really tries to take a hard look at "time and tide" like you and I do (I further presume), and he's really doing nothing wrong but prosecuting his own sincerity I feel.
If he didn't believe "it" or think it was a *good* thing, _I_ don't suspect that he'd be doing it; moreover I think he'd come clean about that...
Wow! Think of the killing he could make being the sociopath he's painted out to be, switching sides and writing the expose that debunked the 60 year old Meier "phenom" at LAST! LOL! He could steal all Kaptain Korff's work and profit the same way Korff is presently! LOL!
That said -- I had a good hard look at Mr. Horn... and produced the following as a result:
http://www.rense.com/general51/dvd.htm
Jeff Rense is another who is no friend to Mr. Horn...
In the preceding essay, regarding the "few... well chosen... rational and constructive words from learned readers [putting] me aright, straight away!"?
They were not forthcoming. A hard look at Horn intimates a there in there somewhere, for my money.
I don't want to appear stuffy, L., sincerely... but I think Horn deserves a closer look than he gets... pretty much for the reasons iterated earlier in the thread...
As to the dust-ups referenced earlier witnessed at the "Triple K" site...? It seems Horn is abundantly provoked and still manages to keep the high ground.
KKK's the "pig that likes to be wrestled with", eh? He's the one profiting from his unsupported smears, and in a massive hyperbole I've alluded to "unholstered pistols," already!
Horn has not been as near as vindictive as, well... me, frankly! You've seen me go off on that which tasks my sensibilities, right? Maybe I should get the same kind of criticism.
I've been loudly critical of "Kaptain Korff" for years as "triple k" is an obnoxious shill for the "dark side." LOL! Here's something from 2002. He's at _least_ as dodgy as Horn could ever hope to be on a "max-zoom" day!
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/mar/m02-021.shtml
or
http://tinyurl.com/ulzjc
Still, I'll wrestle the "pig" because when _I_ wrestle with the "pig," I aim to come away with some chops, ribs, and shred, you know?
Some call _me_ a bully. Predictably, I don't see it that way. Sorry, I just won't be sneered at or tolerate the injudicious same towards others. Expect a victory to be Pyhrric. I suspect Horn is the same way even if more a gentleman than I. [g].
Hey -- in peace... I'm just speaking my mind... and showing restraint in my own right! LOL!
alienview@roadrunner.com
> www.AlienView.net
>> AVG Blog -- http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/
>>> U F O M a g a z i n e -- www.ufomag.com
Don't stop speaking your mind. You won't offend me unless you start calling me names.:-)
Seriously, I have nothing against Horn, I just do not believe as he does about Meire. I don't believe he is making any real money off this and I really just wonder about the motivation of Korff. Suing them for 25 million is laughable, does anyone really believe Meire and Horn have made 25 mil? I know too many ufologists to believe that. Korff has to know there is no 25 mil, so why is he doing this? Attention maybe or just a sick need to try to destroy Horn and Meire? I haven't a clue.
Really if not for the fact that I know how much money it can cost if you are sued, even with a completely false case (sadly I have been there), I would find the whole thing laughable. Even if it never actually makes it to court it can end up costing thousands of dollars. So I will once again say that we need a law that people who bring unprovable or false charges against someone need to be forced to pay the defendants court/lawyer costs.
Lesley,: "At least I can understand why Horn cares, because he believes very much in the Meire story, but what I don't get is Korff's obsession with destroying Horn and Meire. Even if they were both complete frauds, there are far more dangerous and expensive frauds going on in the world, why waste the time on those two?"
If you accept the theory (I do, it's my new thang, :) that, as Colin Bennett so brilliantly wrote in the latest issue of UFO Magazine (and why that hasn't received a lot of attention, I don't know) there's a (sorry, here it comes) paradigm in place to ensure this kind of thing goes on.
Call it part of the Trickster in paranormal and UFO phenomena (as George Hansen does) or whatever, this kind of dangerous, stupid, thuggish, ridiculous crap will always -- _always_ -- go on.
There is the energy/force at work, usin g its dupes, like the Korff's of the world, and all other mega-skeptics, to help the Infrastructure keep the mundane world mundane, and the anomalous out.
By whatever means: trolling, attacking, disinfo, and UFO poser fence sitting, as well as more "normal" means; like posting on the JREF forum and becoming of member of the now 'CSI.' The renaming of that orginization is part of the process; Nickell's silly owl theories are a part of the process, 'Stop Slyvia.com' is a part of the process, even while, at the same time, railing against those, like Victor Zummit, who in typical Trickster like fashion, gave the world the paranormal version of "The Challenge" (as per Amazing Randi.)
As normal I am way behind in my UFO magazine reading. I shall have to make a point to read that article.
I have always kind of wondered if the trolling and other stuff is used as a distraction of sorts. As long as ufologists are busy writing responses to comments and trying to defend themselves, they are spending time that they could be using for more important things. Mostly though, I think KKK and others like him have a mental problem that causes them to have a need for any kind of attention they can manage to get.
I agree with that Lesley; that part of the intent in the baiting and trolling and poo flinging is to distract. It's to get UFO and Fortean researchers off topic, and in a "fight" with them. That's why I won't engage with them any longer. That's not the same thing as saying one shouldn't call them on their stuff; one absolutely should! If one is so inclined. But giving in to their demands, taking the bait, -- no thanks.
'A Wonderful Yule' to you to Lesley!
I rarely respond to them directly either, especially if I feel that I am being proded into some sort of response. Seriously, I think some of them take joy in being noticed and responded to and I just will not do it if I get that vibe. I know that hurts them far more than anything I could say. They can't stand to think that they didn't anger me enough to respond. In truth, it is hard to be angered by someone you consider to be a mentally ill, attention needing, sad and sick excuse for a human being. That goes along with the fact that I would actually have to have some amount of respect for someone to actually be offended by anything they say. As everyone knows I could probably continue along those lines, but it is enough.
I hope you have an exceptionally wonderful Yule!
Post a Comment