Wednesday, March 05, 2008

If you can't stand the heat...

get out of the kitchen. Duh!

Yesterday I took the time to read through comments over at Jeremy Vaeni's Culture of Contact. It was the post about the Atlantic City UFO Conference and the comments were hilarious! Mostly it is the interaction between Alfred Lehmberg and some guy called Will. Will gets Al a little riled by saying mean things about Lynne Kitei and since she isn't there to defend herself Al does. Then for dozens of posts Will continues to engage and anger Lehmberg, obviously knowing full well that he is not going to respond in a kind manner. Finally after these dozens of posts he wants Jeremy to ban Lehmberg from commenting or he is leaving. Now as far as I could tell by the posts there were two people playing and they were both lobbing insults. IMO, Jeremy did the exact right thing by telling him he would not ban Lehmberg.

Let me give out a basic internet posting rule --
If someone writes what you consider to be mean things about you there are only a couple of options, be prepared to fight until the bitter end or just let it go.

Lehmberg knows this rule and I assure you that he is always prepared to go until the bitter end. Say what you want, but you would never find him asking for someone to be banned from a free commenting forum, he can handle things himself and in his own way.

Unless it is a point you consider important enough to be worth the time and energy, I suggest just letting it go. I normally let things go and try to save my energy for important topics when they come along. Yes, certain people do sometimes goad me into arguments on silly points, it happens to everyone. Still, silly arguments are fun from time to time and they sharpen you defenses for the big ones. :-) That said, I limit my arguing by limiting the message boards and blog commenting I participate in. Anytime you give an opinion you will normally find someone who will disagree with it, often in a mean way and you must be prepared to deal with that. It isn't just ufology either, it is the entire internet with politics being the worst, but really any topic that people have differing opinions on is the same.

Asking for someone to be banned after you have engaged them for dozens of posts is sniveling. Don't want to deal with them anymore? Ignore them or leave the board. Telling a moderator who you want banned on their forum is in very bad taste, especially if you have encouraged the conversation all the way along.

Just so it is known (and I may add a banner in the sidebar), this is a no sniveling zone. Everyone here is free to post what they want (except spam). If YOU choose to say something mean about someone, Lynne Kitei or anyone else (I don't care how ridiculous you think they are) you have to be prepared to suffer the consequences. And if YOU engage in an argumentative conversation with Lehmberg or anyone else -- that was your decision, not mine, so don't you dare try to blame me for not banning someone if it becomes too much for you. YOU are responsible for what YOU choose to say and any ire you attract from it, just like in real life.

(Side note to Al -- the term Cracker Man is priceless! It think it was Ritzmann you called that, but I plan on using it in the future (not necessarily on Ritzmann) so don't TM it or anything. Right up there with Clown Shoe.)

16 comments:

Alfred Lehmberg said...

All respect to the Cracker-man. I suspect Ritzmann (Hence Cracker-man) is one of the good guys, and Cracker-man was a term of endearment countering "Will C's" sneer at my own name:

ie -- Limburger...

Biedny became D'bidiknees and Jeremy became Dick Vaeni -- all in good fun. Just hookin' and jabbin' in cyberspace, right?

Not so "Will" and others identified. I can take a yuk... Biedny, Ritzmann, and Vaeni can get a yuk, eh? Not so select others...

http://www.alienview.net/news.html

...no. Others need to put their armor on and tune up their wordsmithing.

Thanks for showing a little stone and speaking your mind on the issues. The brave have mighty forces coming to their aid, eh?

alienview@roadrunner.com
> www.AlienView.net
>> AVG Blog -- http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/
>>> U F O M a g a z i n e -- www.ufomag.com

LesleyinNM said...

I still love the term Cracker Man. It reminds me of Chef on south park talking about the little cracker children. It could be both a term of endearment or a cut, depending on the situation. Whatever it is, it totally makes me laugh.

It is for myself, you, Jeremy and others that I must speak up. Of all the things that went on, that Will person trying to blackmail Jeremy that if he doesn't ban you he will leave the board made me ill. Like Will is that important to Jeremy's future? The blog and podcast will go under without him? Who is Will? Really Will puts far too much importance on himself. Jeremy is the one who puts all the work into that podcast/blog and not Will. The fact that Will thinks he has some authoritah there is senseless.

Mostly, I want nobody to make the mistake of thinking they have any authoritah here. I put a damn lot of work into this and my other blogs and I will be damned if anyone will tell me who should and should not be allowed to post on it. Everyone is welcome, but if they can't handle free speech, they are free to move on, someone else will take their place. I am sure there are plenty of moderated blogs and message boards out there.

LesleyinNM said...

Sorry, I just now read the post you linked, should have done that before commenting. Jeremy actually booted you?

Did I watch the entire thing from the wrong window? It seemed to me that Will was egging you on? How did you become the one blamed?

I am disappointed in Jeremy. Why? I don't understand what purpose it serves. I am sure Bush and Rove would understand, but I do not.

Alfred Lehmberg said...

I don't want to over hammer this nail, if you can believe that —and I know it's a stretch— but all fellow travelers on this strange path we share must begin to wonder when they will be the one whispered about. Where are their wells poisoned... wells poisoned along the path we share (kind of poisoning it for everyone). Maybe I'm their mine canary.

I suspect that to allow this crass McCarthyism is to excuse it, eh?

Why do we suffer the Rich Reynolds' or Danny Brenton's to practice exactly that which is wrong with ufology to begin with.

Ideological-either-or-with-me-or-against-me-secret-society silliness as regressive as it is reactionary.

I said I wouldn't over hammer.

But thanks for speaking up... I think it a blow struck for an America in which we may believe! Seriously.

Alfred Lehmberg said...

I think Jeremy is collateral damage in what proves to be a monstrously mendacious manipulation of his evenhanded sensibility, as much a victim as any one of us. It's not Jeremy's fault for being a real Mensch of no small maturity, actually...

I wonder, were there other victims of this scurrilous kafuffle?

LesleyinNM said...

Honestly I would have never thought Jeremy to be so easily manipulated. There are certain people I find to be offensive on his boards, should I cry and whine that they be banned? Well, I would never do that because I could handle myself should there be a need, but seriously I am sure that anyone would be able to find something of offense there if they looked. I think he has opened a Pandora's box of people thinking they control his blog and he does not. I really find it a complete and total shame. Yes, more for Jeremy than you.

Alfred Lehmberg said...

Well, don't be to hard on the "V" man; manipulated, was he perhaps no more manipulated than I, compelled to respond to "Will's" malevolent little asides and pointed observations — give 'im just a taste of the spanking he deserved— that got me booted with the rule "Will and Danny" encouraged?

They're not paying the 'tariff.' They should pay. If you can't make your point? You should pay.

Actions require consequences of varying degree. We knew this was true the moment it was sussed out that a single butterfly's beating wing could result in a hurricane attacking from the gulf...

You know, with regard to whisper campaigns and reflex fifth column crap from the "aforementioned" exposed in this thread: at COC in the offending commentary, the word "heinous" was bandied about inappropriately.

Here and now and applied to the Byzantine behavior of pin-heads trying to take inexplicable charge in our community, it appears to be a word entirely appropriate.

LesleyinNM said...

Don't get me wrong, I still consider Jeremy a friend, he won't be removed from my facebook or myspace lists.:-)

I just feel it is sad because I don't really believe Jeremy wanted to boot you, but instead just got sick of all the pressure to do so and thought it would be easier than putting up with that. It is a shame when people are forced to ban their friends from their blog.

Alfred Lehmberg said...

I agree of course. It's always a shame when someone's best efforts are perverted to grind the axes of those with the untested faith and temerity to think they know better about what you should be listening to or even thinking!

Oh Danny boy, the pipes...
The pipes are calling
From glen to glen
And down the mountain side.
The summer's gone,
And all the flowers are dying
'Tis you, 'tis you must go
And I must bide.

Am I less than constructive enough to post freely — that I must be stopped out of hand? Not debated or criticized or even asked what the hell I'm talking about. Just stopped.

Thing is? I submit it's at least suspected what I'm talking about if the knowledge of it is not grokked outright! It was _written_ to be grokked, you see.

But Nicky-new-guy ain't interested in no grokkin' yunnerstand... he's only here, et al, to whack the inmates at Bedlam asylum with his cane — ! He can feel the back of my hand, the slack-wit!

All that said...

[screetscreet..screetscreet] [g].

nolocontendere said...

If the internet stays up, and there's no guarantee it will, when the troubles start all civility will be defenestrated and comments and forums will drip with acid.

Jeremy Vaeni said...

Alfred got booted because I made a rule to appease everybody: You can attack me or the show but not each other. Alfred did his best but in the end he had to get in one last jab. So I stuck to the rule. The irony is, Will left anyway. He went over to The Paracast forum and was challenged mildly on some things he said. The result is that he deleted a bunch of his posts from there and has not been heard from since.

Fuck Will.

But getting back to Alfred...Did I want to boot him? Of course not. But I also don't want every episode's comment section to be a spillover argument about who will cave first, which is what was taking place.

What happens if the other person doesn't disengage Alfred? Does it go on forever? Does it eat away my paid-for-by-me space until I have to upgrade just because everyone wants to be "right?"

I'm not a babysitter. It's time to learn to let go, ya know? This is not life or death stuff here. You're disappointed in me for booting Alfred? I'm disappointed in Alfred for not being able to shut up long enough to let the thing blow over. I'm disappointed in myself for giving a shit what some long-winded douche bag (Will) says... but only after the fact. Only now that I see who he is. Before the fact, he was a listener, a guest, making comments and I think in general it is a good rule to not attack each other ad infinitum.

Don't you?

Isn't this the crap we want to stop?

Lastly, I want to make it clear that I can separate friendship from the business at hand and I find it far more offensive that someone would urge me to dump a friend that they have a beef with because having a beef with them should equal evil person to me and therefore I shouldn't want to be friends with evil person, or else...what? I'm an asshat by proxy?

Sorry, kids. Your problems are your own. I like Alfred. Phone Alfred is awesome--very caring, very open, intelligent and full of good humor. Online Alfred has claws. So what? People are complicated. No one is ever one way all the time except the dead.

Jeremy Vaeni said...

I stand corrected: Will is now back posting at The Paracast forum. I stand by "Fuck Will," though. Not that I want to, but...you know what I mean.

I like gay sex.

Wait. Wait, that's not what I mean. Lesley? ... Eh...?

LesleyinNM said...

In way of apology at the time of writing about being disappointed in you I had only read the comments on the Atlantic City UFO Con post. So far as I could tell by that Alfred and Will were both going at each other pretty equally, so I didn't understand why Al would be kick off and Will wouldn't. Later I realized it was a different comment section Al was kicked off in for mentioning Rich Reynolds. I also read your comments about Will after kicking Al off and that made me feel better.

I would like to know where those rules are posted. I looked at your site and didn't see them anywhere. I wouldn't want to accidentally break one. If I break one I would like it to be on purpose. :-)

Yes, fuck Will. Alfred fell into his trap, but he kept leading him there.

Jeremy Vaeni said...

Hi, Lesley:

I'm pretty sure I posted it in that second section a few comments before the big blowout. I suppose I should post it as a rule in its own blog posting but I'm in the middle of tearing all of this down and recreating it so I don't know if I'll even keep the comments section as it is.

As for Will--hell, even Cracker-man can seehow he got in Alfred's craw. And now the dude is posting under another name trying to bait Alfred about Daniel. I simply don't care enough about any of this to do anything. It's Romper Room to me.

LesleyinNM said...

I thought that last comment at coc was rather strange and out of place. It all makes sense now.

Kind of meaningless when the person you are trying to bait is banned and Alfred would never post as someone else. Not just because it would be so obvious that it was him either. Alfred has enough balls to post as himself or not at all.

Alfred Lehmberg said...

I prefer to think of them as individually packaged ovaries. A two-pack.

alienview@roadrunner.com
> www.AlienView.net
>> AVG Blog -- http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/
>>> U F O M a g a z i n e -- www.ufomag.com